Saturday, September 05, 2020

WM 175: Debate Update & Robert W. Jenson on Canon and Creed



A. J. MacDonald, Jr said...

"Despite Luther's harsh polemics against his Roman Catholic opponents over issues concerning Mary and the saints, theologians appear to agree that Luther adhered to the Marian decrees of the ecumenical councils and dogmas of the church..." Read more: Lutheran Mariology

John Gill said...

The only difference between White & Ehrman. The latter takes things to their logical conclusion: atheism. Ehrman proves White to be both an hypocrite and inconsistent. Functionally speaking White is an atheist in his reasoning.

Jeffrey T. Riddle said...


A Lutheran friend sent the following in an email:

Here's what I understand...

Luther's theology developed over time, so there is actually the earlier Luther and the later Luther. Given that, and the fact that he wrote a tremendous amount of material (some of it still locked up in German, untranslated), a person can "make" Luther say pretty much anything. Therefore, I would guess that the early Luther probably prayed to Mary, and the late Luther probably insulted her (God forbid).

Some Radical Lutherans go (mostly) by Luther's writings for their theology (especially to support antinomian Gospel reductionism), but Confessional Lutherans like me (I'm not sure which Jenson was) subscribe to the Book of Concord, which says (Augsburg Confession, Article 21):

47 Of the Worship of Saints, [1] they teach, that the memory of saints may be set before us, that we may follow their faith and good works, according to our calling, as the Emperor may follow the example of David in making war to drive away the Turk from his country. For both are kings. But the Scripture teaches not the invocation of saints, [2] or to ask help of saints, since it sets before us Christ, as the only Mediator, [3] Propitiation, High-Priest and Intercessor. He is to be prayed to, and hath promised that He will hear our prayer; and this worship He approves above all, to wit, that in all afflictions He be called upon [1 John 2:1]: [4] “If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father,” etc.

(Mary was a saint, obviously.)

Jeffrey T. Riddle said...

John Gill, I think you are right that JW does not seem to be aware that Enlightenment-influenced thinking leads to Enlightenment-influenced conclusions.